Yesterday I had the most amazing experience. My perspective was completely changed on a subject in just a matter of minutes. Interestingly, it is an issue I have been conflicted over so much lately. I suppose that meant I was ready to listen.
I have had this long-standing guilt over being argumentative. I’ve felt it was wrong, un-Christlike, and a bad witness. But my personality can rarely walk away from a good debate. Earlier in the day, I had just explained to a friend why I had left various internet discussion groups. I have grown tired of all the arguing. Yet I found myself immediately in two intense conversations. I was so frustrated that I can’t seem to just turn around and walk away from them. But during the course of the last debate I realized, to do so, would have been insulting to the other person who genuinely wanted to discuss an issue. I was left conflicted. What is the right thing to do?
I have been in arguments where I felt attacked by those who were supposed to be on my side, as believers. My perspective was not even heard, let alone understood. I appreciate being heard more than being agreed with! But when someone doesn’t even listen, and gets hostile, then we are wasting words. Have I been guilty of this myself? Most definitely.
Later in the day after I briefly explained the above struggle with my friend, I picked up reading in a book I’ve been working my way through, and a completely clear answer came. I saw through this story that it’s not wrong to argue, but we often argue wrongly. I have to share this excerpt from the book. It’s hard to get the full impact of the story this pastor is telling about his “church” in a hard core part of Pittsburgh, without having read the book up to this point. But I hope you can get the idea.
One Sunday after worship, Amanda and Eric approached me. Amanda is a twenty-something with a mix of blond, black, and red hair. Eric has a black and blue tint to his hair that I’ve always wanted and have never had the nerve to get. Both Eric and Amanda are eccentric, artsy, and love old monster movies and rock-n-roll. Eric and Amanda are the kind of people I want to be when I grow up. So, when they came to me on that Sunday morning with an idea, I listened. “Pastor Jim,” Amanda started, “We want to get involved in a Bible study. Is this church going to have any Bible studies?” I quickly got defensive. That’s what we pastors do when it is insinuated that we’re not providing the right products. “We already have Bible studies going on right now,” I replied. “We have a study on Monday night, a study about Ephesians on Wednesday, and a study on Romans on Saturday nights at the coffee shop.” Eric looked at me, politely, but pained, and said to me very gently and kindly, “Yeah, we went to those.” “It’s just not what we’re looking for, Pastor Jim,” Amanda said. “Well, what is it you’re looking for? Maybe we can get something new going.” That’s when Amanda got bold. I braced myself. “To be honest, Pastor Jim, I don’t like those other studies because it’s just a bunch of people sitting around nodding at one other. I mean, everyone is just agreeing with each other. I feel like we’re being brain-washed or something.” “What are you suggesting?” I replied, kind of confused.
“I don’t know. We want to be part of a Bible study where no one agrees.” “No one agrees?” “Sure, why don’t we have a study where everyone comes and we fight?” “Fight?” “Yeah. We fight about the Bible and theology and stuff.” “Uh … All right.”
And Bible Fight Club was born. When we started Bible Fight Club, the purpose wasn’t, and still isn’t, discipleship. The club isn’t meant to be a place where we grow in our faith, per se. The point to the gathering is not to worship, not to study scripture, and not to fellowship. The point to Bible Fight Club is to fight. It is a time for debate, a time for wrestling, and for doubting and questioning the things that we sometimes hold as gospel.
Sometimes this even means the gospel. For our church, it has been a place where atheists, agnostics, believers, non-believers, and believers of other faiths can come and toss in their two cents. To make sure that the argument is valued and that people are valued as well, we made the following rules:
Bible Fight Club Rules:
1. Respect: this means we love and respect each other, but not necessarily each other’s opinions. Also, respect the argument by being a good listener.
2. Say Anything: this means that there is no judging and no holding grudges. The tattoo shop basement is a safe place where anything can be said. This rule has made it possible for people to play devil’s advocate-taking a side of an argument, they might not completely agree with justto see where the line of thinking goes.
3. Fight: this rule means that all those in attendance must participate. No one is allowed to come and observe. Observers and silent on-lookers skew the argument by inadvertently becoming a kind of jury that people try to convince.
4. Get to the Point: there are no speeches allowed. People are to make their point and shut up so that others can speak. Also, a good arguer listens as often as he or she speaks.
5. Honor the Argument: phrases like, “Well, it’s all just a mystery” or “We’ll never know the answer, so why bother arguing” do not honor the argument. Take a side and fight, no matter how mysterious you think the subject is.
6. Admit When You’ve Been Hit: At the end of the evening, we take time to talk about the argument. Everyone must share something that was said that made him or her think. Sometimes this might mean having some humility. But that’s the point.
As the moderator, it has been interesting to see where certain arguments go. We have tackled such topics as hell, the devil, church and culture, politics, healing, money, angels, and on and on. We have people show up armed with books and commentaries. We have people show up who want to defend their territory. All different kinds of folks, with different backgrounds and faiths, have joined the argument. We’ve had Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and people who practice witchcraft. We’ve had Christians who would identify themselves as liberal and Christians who come from a more fundamentalist background.
During one rather heated argument about the Trinity, one guy stood up, red-faced, threw his Bible on the ground in anger and cried out, “What is wrong with you people?! Aren’t we all Christians here?!” At which point, three or four people shouted back at him: “No!” He slowly sat back down in his seat, scratching his hand and looking around the room suspiciously. He had come for a Bible study, not a fight.
… Some might say this kind of study only helps to confuse people and doesn’t send a clear message of what the gospel is. But I would say that Bible Fight Club has been a better forum for sharing the love of Christ than any other Bible study that I have ever attended. Many times, Bible studies can turn into indoctrination sessions, where the goal is to make everyone “be like us.” Doesn’t that kind of stuff turn everyone off? Because the Fight Club is more about valuing the fight than winning the fight, we all walk out invigorated and excited rather than demoralized. We have had many people return a week after a good fight and share how they did more research on the topic. We’ve had others say that the fight caused them actually to pick up the Bible and read it for the first time.
Are we worshipping Buddha? No, Jesus is Lord. Do we compromise our faith by subscribing to some sort of watered-down relativism? No, Jesus is Lord. Are we encouraging people to think for themselves? Yes. Are we practicing the spiritual discipline of listening so that we earn the right to be heard? Yes. Are we creating a doorway through which people can come and experience the kingdom of God? Yes. We have had more people than I can count join us for worship on Sunday morning, where we preach the gospel, because they got to participate in a discussion on faith in the basement of a tattoo shop.
The most important part of the evening comes at the very end. Observing the last rule at the end of the fight, participants must share one thing that someone else said that was not in-line with their opinion and made them think. This has been a powerful time as we go around the room and honor the fight and the fighters. The act of admitting that someone else had a good point or a challenging argument is a gesture of humility. That small gesture can be the vehicle in which the group binds together. Suddenly, everyone is on the same playing field. We become one not because we all agreed, but because we all contributed to the argument.
During this time of humility and encouragement, the Holy Spirit moves among us, and by the time we’re done, we realize that although we’re all coming from different points of view, we have actually shared in koinonia through the fight. Arguing over God and theology and the Bible doesn’t have to be a bitter, hateful thing we try to avoid. Fighting over the Bible, struggling with the real questions of faith, can actually be a time of koinonia, binding ourselves to one another through our differing opinions. This is possible as long as we come to the fight, not ready to win the argument, but ready to value the argument. This is possible as long as we walk into the fight willing to listen, willing to acknowledge that we don’t know everything, and willing to have humility.
Jim Walker: Dirty Word: The Vulgar, Offensive Language of the Kingdom of God
I have broken the rules of “fair fighting” so many times. Rules that preserve mutual respect and honor the other person. But I have seen here the value of arguing… or if you prefer the word, debating. In the Information Age and post-modern culture, we have to wrestle for truth. We have to literally fight through so many ideas and beliefs.. because we are told they are all valid. But I honestly believe in spite of being told there isn’t absolute truth, people are still looking for it. If Jesus is that Truth, how are we going to share Him if we don’t allow people to wrestle? Does it mean we have to win? No. Winning isn’t up to us. Listening and testifying are.
Cults and fringe religious movements do not allow anyone to openly question their sacred cows. Evangelical Christianity doesn’t generally tolerate it well either. People find it terrifying. “Truth” must be controlled and protected. But the Truth is not afraid to be challenged and tested. If it is true, it will prevail. Those who come out of closed cult systems do need to wrestle, sometimes for years, with every part of their belief system they once ascribed to. It’s a messy business. I have felt drained and frustrated by watching others in this process, and backed away. I have felt I no longer had anything to contribute. But I now see that everywhere there is someone seeking truth (ex-cult or otherwise), this messy business will be necessary. Just as children are messy treasures, so are God’s spiritual kids, as we are born and grow in Him.
So I repent of my “it’s not nice to argue” error and realize it may be the most complimentary thing you can do for someone. Acknowledge them. Challenge them to wrestle with the Holy One of Israel. May we then become “People of the Limp.” As Jacob was broken and changed, we also can become humble and broken before God and men. We can even be allowed, to be wrong.
By the way… I cannot recommend this book highly enough!
8thDay4Life 
I can point you to some crazy facebook groups if you want to hone your debating skills.
All the ones I just left? Lol. I was going to include here that what this author is describing is probably better achieved in person.
Thanks for sharing this excerpt. My husband likes to play devil’s advocate, which really confuses people sometimes. He goes to a home group where he sometimes disagrees with the leader just to get a discussion going and to encourage people to think rather than head-nodding.
I generally really detest arguing in a group setting.. even though I am always compelled to participate, I would rather avoid it. ha. I am so conflicted. I think the problem is my own pride and fear, and the fact that there is seldom an environment where the ground rules above are understood. Unless there are parameters set down, it is usually extremely unproductive and I have seen it divide friendships, in my own living room. What this article caused me to realize, is that it does have a purpose and a place, and CAN be a healthy part of seeking truth and challenging each other to think. I desire to improve my own approach to debate and not resort to some of the “outs” listed here. Which I have often done!! Great to challenge people to think though, in a spirit of humility.
I have a question for you, Do you know how law keepers justify the stoning of Stephen? I haven’t been able to find the law keepers position on this one yet? I feel I need to debate this with someone… Thanks in advance – Steve
I am not sure I’ve met any modern ones who have defended this action, although it has been implied that I myself should be stoned. From my experience stoning is called for more often when you challenge human authority than for blasphemy.
I pretty much do not get into much debates as I did as before.
My longest debate was about 2- 3 years Long on the The biblical doctrine of the trinity but the guy just told me, I done with you not going to reply to you any more.
got questions on facebook sometimes debates break out, i was debating two people on christmas who was against it and they just left the discussion.
I hope to be more sensitive to the Spirit about when/how to do so. It’s not about me being right, it’s about Him being glorified. Sometimes it means to speak, and sometimes it calls for silence. (not my strong gift!) 🙂
as The bereans did also deal with armstrong/hebrew rights movement
I’ve commented numerous times on an article: “http://melissajenna.com/2012/06/30/50-shades-of-magic-mike-in-which-i-am-very-uncool/”. In a nutshell, it is an article written by a Christian woman (from whatever denomination, I’m not sure) indicating why she believes the erotic novel 50 Shades of Grey and the movie Magic Mike shouldn’t be used as entertainment by Christians. As an atheist, her religious reasoning was irrelevant to me, I mean, I’m all for people saying what’s on their mind but I don’t touch on the beliefs of others because it isn’t my job to convert people. However, what irked me the most was that she felt that how she interpreted God’s teachings of sexual immorality were the end-all-be-all, they could not be questioned – even by other Christians who have interpreted them differently. After reading this article, I feel she would really benefit from this because it is very inspiring and I feel it could apply to all kinds of beliefs – not just religious ones. People should be more open to having their beliefs discussed rather than wanting to hide them under the table where no one can touch them.
Hi Mercedes! Thanks for reading! As a rather dogmatic writer myself, 🙂 .. I may not have any right to reply to this, however I understand your frustration. You definitely would see that subject from a totally different premise than she would, but it is very common for us Christians to attempt to bend all other Christians to our perspective, especially when it comes to the issues of appearances and behavior. Many of us have been taught that we not only have the ability, but also the obligation – to set people on the path we believe is the right one. I have had friendships lost or severely strained because I would not admit I was wrong in some area, which I find sad. I do believe there are some things that are true, and I won’t bend them for anyone else’s benefit. I may even feel compelled to contend for them in the face of opposing beliefs (much of what I do here).. but at the end of the day, I believe loving one another in spite of our differences is THE MOST IMPORTANT endeavor. Being “right” most of the time negates being loving – the highest mandate from Jesus a real Christian should seek to express.
There is very little room to respectfully question anything in any Christian circles, and that is sad. The bottom line is people are motivated by fear. We think we have to defend the truth or all will be lost. We claim we believe in an all-powerful God, then behave as if He needs our help to do His job.
But as soon as we suggest that something is “true” than by default we will touch other’s beliefs and imply they are wrong. This is the the big challenge of Jesus, and the claims He made. If we truly follow Him that does put the Christian in a difficult, and unpopular position. But the line in the sand is only Him, not every other hobby horse we want to jump on and add on as a definition of what is “Christian”. And that, would be MY frustration with that discussion. lol.
I think the problem doesn’t really lay in what many of the commenters perceive as “Christian” but really in how people initiate their comments. Most topics revolving around Christian morality are treated like sacred ground that an atheist will never and “should never” touch. The main reason in why I loved this article so much is because it promotes healthy and respectful discussion, a kind of discourse that seems to be lost nowadays.
Yes I agree with you there! Extremely hard to find!
Just checked out your blog Mercedes. Totally cracked me up. Your list reminds me of one I just started.. ‘101 reasons why I hate facebook”.. I’m up to #23. Great writing.
Haha thank you! I have so many ideas for serious, quote unquote, writing but I haven’t been able to find the words for them so I wrote my list on a whim.